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The Matt Forney Show, Episode 38: Inside Elliot Rodger’s Brain


This is a very important episode of the podcast, and not just because I changed the name of the show. In this edition of the show, I talk to founder Kid Strangelove about the Elliot Rodger shootings, the laziness and cravenness of the mainstream media, social media addiction and kicking bad habits, the New York City meetup we’re holding this Friday, and a whole lot more. Additionally, I’ve also hired professional stenographer Eve Penman to transcribe this podcast, for those of you too lazy to actually listen to it.

Listen below:

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MATT FORNEY: Yes, I am Matt Forney, this is the Matt Forney Show, episode number 38. No longer the Podcast Extravaganza because it had too many syllables. It is Tuesday, June 3rd, 2014, and I am pleased to bring on to this episode as my guest, my friend, a prolific blogger, Kid Strangelove. You can find him at;, all one word. He’s also the founder and creator of, the Internet’s leading anti-feminist, pro-masculine thought, masculine self-improvement aggregator. Kid, thank you for coming on the show.

KID STRANGELOVE: Matt, what’s going on? It’s always a pleasure to hang out with you, whether in person or over Skype.

MATT FORNEY: Perfect, exactly. I always do this with all my first-time interviewees, because I don’t like to seem like I’m putting words in people’s mouths. So, Kid, for the people in the audience who don’t know who you are, could you briefly explain, give an overview of who you are, what you’re about, what brought you into the manosphere and that sort of thing?

KID STRANGELOVE: Sure, man, absolutely. Well, my manosphere name or whatever is Kid Strangelove. I got it because I’m a big giant fan of Westerns and the movie Dr. Strangelove. So it’s like half Dr. Strangelove, half Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

Originally I grew up in a very traditional family; my family are all immigrants from eastern Europe. So, especially when everything kind of changes in the roles of dating and sexuality, and at the same time you see this change play out when you move from one country to another, there was really no place to learn except by yourself.

So, I really started with pickup artist stuff and went to a bunch of websites and tried to learn and expand my mind as much as I can. And then I really moved away from the commercial pickup artist stuff and just really kind of cleared my mind of the commercial mentality of, hey, you can hit on every girl all the time successfully, which is of course false. Because even the best baseball player in the world, Ted Williams, you know, arguably, he had—his best batting average was over 400, but it also means that he fucked up 60 percent of the time. So I try to keep that in my head.

I started blogging in about 2004, to kind of document my own journey, to see what’s going on and what happens with what I learn when it comes to my own life, my dating or my own personal views. And right around that time I discovered blogs such as Heartiste and Roosh, which were a departure from the PUA stuff that I’d seen, because the information that they offered was free, it was valid, and it came from this place where success wasn’t sure; you can learn and you can be better, but at the same time you always knew that, you know, it’s about self-improvement, in the long run.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. And from what I understand you’re critical of the whole seduction community idea; that the locus of control is always within the man, and if your relationship ends or if you don’t get the girl it’s always your fault because you did something wrong. Whereas the real world is a bit more complicated than that, you know.

KID STRANGELOVE: Absolutely, absolutely. And that idea was what originally kind of was my first red pill, so to speak; was that no matter who you are and what you do, there’s going to be some people that like you and there’s going to be some people that don’t like you, and you can do your best to make yourself more attractive, but you’re never going to be the shit to everyone.


KID STRANGELOVE: And that was the failure of the commercial pickup artist community, in my experience, because they wanted to kind of sell you so bad on the fact that, hey, you read our stuff, you’re going to be the greatest player of all time. And at the same time if you ran into, you know, someone that wasn’t appealing, which is totally normal, you ran into someone that wasn’t appealing to you and you’re like, hey, someone’s not appealing to me, they said it’s your fault, it’s not the fault of our system. So, you know, which will lead into something we’ll talk about in the future.

One of the websites that kind of deprogrammed me was the infamous PUA Hate when it just started. Because when PUA Hate just started it was all about exposing the commercial pickup artists and their kind of scammy, fraudulent tactics on Internet marketing. I absorbed it for what it was and didn’t come back to that site for years, and then when I did I saw something different, but we’ll get into that a little later.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah, pretty much. What you point out is basically what separates the manosphere, or at least the new generation of male self-improvement writers from the old ones. Well, the first seduction book I read, or whatever you want to call it, was actually not anything in the seduction community; it was Roosh’s Bang. Afterwards I read The Mystery Method because I felt like I was obligated to; there’s like a huge tonal shift between the books. The Mystery Method is written in this very pretentious sort of style. It’s like you too can have the perfect tens, models, strippers, supermodels, The Mystery Method can get them to you. Whereas Roosh’s just straight up says you’re not going to be able to bang every girl, not every girl is going to be into you, but if you follow my method you can get more than what you’re getting, you can improve your station in life, which demonstrates the difference between the two different approaches.

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, no, it absolutely does. But at the same time if you’re someone that’s lost in your life, you know, who hasn’t really experienced anything sexual, the fact that someone says, hey, you can bang supermodel tens every day; versus, listen, your life’s going to be better, but you’re not going to be Brad Pitt times ten. But at the same time, the first one sounds more seductive, towards the average nerd reader, that’s why a lot of people will get pulled into it.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. Nobody really wants to be told the whole self-improvement thing does involve work. Everyone thinks that they—yeah, but what you said there, exactly.

Now, moving on a little bit. You’ve been in the manosphere, as I said, for a long time; for about maybe four years now, from what I recall, when I first started reading your blog around 2010 or so. But essentially up to now you became a big name with the launching of Could you give a brief overview of what led you to catapult your name up to this and create for the—yeah.

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. It originally started, well, my background is I’m a software developer and I’m pretty comfortable around computers and programming and all that stuff. So, I remember seeing the previous aggregator, Viva La Manosphere, and it was a pretty good one, but I realized that their selection process and stuff appearing on their website was more or less selection based. You know, you submit articles and they either get approved or they don’t get approved.

And while that’s pretty good, I figured what the manosphere was missing was a website that shows all of the articles that come out no matter what. So, it was originally called, and I decided to bring together every single manosphere blog that I could, promote them all.

Once there was some insider beef in the manosphere community over Viva La Manosphere, which was surprisingly good timing for me, because right when there was that beef with Viva La Manosphere people were finding out more about my stuff. And my man Apocalypse Cometh, a.k.a. Uncle Mitch, a.k.a. C.M. Sturges, I’m talking about this man like he’s a rapper. My man, the rapper, C.M. Sturges said, hey, I registered back in the day, but I haven’t been doing anything with it, so if you want it it’s yours. And I took it and I just kind of ran with it, you know.

So right now is the source for the newest, freshest updates from the manosphere from—actually we have almost a hundred blogs. I am not sure if we’re at a hundred yet. If not, we’re like at 98.

MATT FORNEY: God damn. And what you just said, you take a very different approach to aggregators than previous, should I say, anti-feminist, masculine self-improvement aggregators did like Viva La Manosphere, in that you don’t discriminate. You include a wide variety of websites, including many who actually found the manosphere officially sort of like, say, A Voice for Men. Can you explain a bit more about the guiding philosophy behind and the guiding philosophy behind your own thought processes?

KID STRANGELOVE: Well, the guiding philosophy is I believe that everyone should have a voice. And I honestly think that to form your own opinion about whatever’s happening in life, whether it’s in the manosphere or anywhere else, needs to have several sources. Because if you follow, let’s say, American news for example, you have your left-wing media and your right-wing media, but at the same time no one’s really telling you the whole 100 percent truth. They’re telling you their own spin on it, so you really get a bigger perspective if you see a story from as many different perspectives as you can.

So, with the manosphere, I thought that there were so many different people from so many different walks of life that if you combined them, then you could have a really good vision of what it’s about. Because I’ve heard the manosphere described as conservative, I’ve heard the manosphere described as Republican, and if you know me I’m far from conservative and Republican. So, and at the same time, there’s also conservative and Republican guys too.

So I just wanted to make it be an open and honest place for everyone where you can express your opinion, and at the same time if your opinion doesn’t match up what other things you say, then you can get a fresh perspective.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah, pretty much. And I’ve talked about this with you in the past, but it’s like your approach is a bit different than not only what is done in this part of the internet, but what is done on the internet entirely. About a decade ago, when I was a young, naive, aspiring journalism student, I read a news article in my local paper which said that one of the deleterious effects of news and information moving to the Internet is the ability to basically build your own bubble.

Now, there are a lot of bad things we could say about the pre-Internet era, the gatekeepers having information being processed only through a handful of news networks and newspapers, but one of the advantages of that approach, that this article argues, is that the average person got exposed to a far variety of perspectives because they had no choice. When the only choices for news are the local paper and Big Three networks, NBC, CBS, ABC, you get exposed to a much broader variety of content, or much wider variety of perspectives than you do nowadays.

Whereas, while there’s a larger breadth of information on the internet than was available back then, everyone has the ability to encapsulate themselves in their own little ideological bubble; never reading or seeing anything outside of that perspective, which gives people, this person argued, gives them a much, should I say, more parochial view of the world in which they are less understanding, or at least less accepting of other people’s viewpoints and less willing to understand. Ideological incest is how you describe it.


MATT FORNEY: And I’d say your website goes counter to that sort of philosophy in that you basically throw out a whole bunch of different perspectives, give them all equal voices. If you like it, you like it; if you don’t like it, you don’t like it, but, hey, maybe you learn something from it.

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah. And that’s been a guiding philosophy for a while, and I totally understand where you’re coming from in that study. Because, yeah, back in the day there was only a couple of channels and a couple of sources of media. And now, if we really try, if we really try we can expose ourselves to so much diverse thought when it comes to world news and stories that we hear about, but at the same time, you’re absolutely right, Matt.

I remember reading a similar story about how the stuff we read on Facebook, because our Facebook friends are more or less similar to us, it keeps us in this bubble. So at the same time, while if we don’t try, our world is smaller than it used to be; but if we do try, like even a little bit, our goal can expand us to the whole world, as long as we understand that there’s no such thing as one true news source, you know.

We all know your MSNBCs and your Fox News are biased, but at the same time you have Al Jazeera, and Al Jazeera has some good stuff, but at the same time you know Al Jazeera is biased. With the conspiracy theory crowd, RT (Russia Today), is becoming very popular, but at the same time Russia Today is owned by the Russian government. So you know they’re not going to be critical of anything that the Russian government is doing.

So, as long as you accept that and view that every single news source has their own slant, their own view, their position, then when you kind of get the whole picture from several sources, you can kind of understand things a little more.

The downside is, you know, I used to kind of consider myself like a hardcore Democrat, but right now I can’t really call myself a Republican and I can’t really call myself a Democrat, because I can call out both sides for the stupidity that they do, so that’s the downside. I can’t pick a team, but at the same time it’s better to have these doubts and be more informed than be ignorant and a cheerleader for someone.

MATT FORNEY: Violently shaking your pom-poms for whatever team happens to be on the field, like an idiot.

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, no, exactly, exactly. And this is what really caused me to re-examine my own political views because, you know, I’m 29 years old, so, in 2006 or so, I was already a young man. And this is what I’m telling a lot of my friends now, is that 2006 for Republicans is the same thing as 2014 is for Liberals, because in 2006 the Republicans controlled the House, the Senate, and the executive branch, and they thought they were fucking unstoppable. They started doing stupid shit and were really cocky and then of course they lost everything. Now it really seems that the Democrats are controlling everything and they seem cocky as hell, and like I said, it’s all fun and games until there’s a Republican president, you know what I mean.

MATT FORNEY: Oh, yeah.

KID STRANGELOVE: So, and this is really weird for me, because what really kind of expanded my mind was that so many of my positions went from liberal positions to conservative positions, whereas my beliefs did not change. I was always against secret government surveillance and I was always an anti-war guy and that was the part of what hit you. So, in 2006, if you’re against the PATRIOT Act, you’re against the war, that’s a liberal thing. Whereas in 2014, if you’re against the mass government NSA surveillance, you’re all of a sudden like a hardcore conservative, and if you’re against the war you’re also a hardcore conservative, which is really weird for me because my positions didn’t change. I don’t like war and I don’t like government surveillance, but at the same time it really helps me acknowledge the current political game that’s happening, you know what I mean.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. Noticing how basically you didn’t change but the world changed around you, that sort of thing.

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah, exactly, exactly. It really makes it hard to believe in current institutions.

MATT FORNEY: I imagine tons of our generation just totally tuned out from the whole system, just very cynical. And speaking of media manipulation, that’s going to the topic for the next segment, but first we are going to go to some sponsors. These are the wonderful people who bring the Matt Forney Show to you every week, enable me to sit down for an hour or two each week and record great interviews with great people like Kid Strangelove, check him out. I’m Matt Forney, this is the Matt Forney Show, and we will have more with Kid Strangelove after this.


MATT FORNEY: And we are back, this is the Matt Forney Show. I’m Matt Forney here with Kid Strangelove, and we are going to talk a bit more about a major news story. The Elliot Rodger killings out in Santa Barbara, California, which were unfairly—after it was discovered that Elliot Rodger was a prolific poster on PUA Hate, all of a sudden the claws came out and everyone started blaming the manosphere, the men’s rights movement, pickup artists for this guy’s shooting, in what may be the most ridiculous case of the media trying to force a false narrative on us, in recent history, well, at least I can think of. Kid, your thoughts on that?

KID STRANGELOVE: Before we begin the discussion of this, I have to say that it is an absolute tragedy what happened, and I really wish that we lived in a world where we didn’t have to discuss this right now. We were planning this podcast for a minute, you know, just to talk some shit between friends, but this thing happened and it’s an absolute tragedy.

So, first and foremost, I wanted to pay my respects to the victims of this tragedy and say a prayer to their families. Rest in peace to Cheng Yuan ‘James’ Hong, George Chen, Weihan ‘David’ Wang, Katherine Cooper, Veronika Weiss, and Christopher Michaels-Martinez.

I’m just completely shaken by this entire thing and I really wish I didn’t have to talk about it, but we do, we do. And I really feel for the families in this tragedy because there’s nothing more tragic than burying your children, you know what I mean.

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much, yeah. I’d like to second what you’re saying there as well. Because everyone’s in a whole rush to pin Elliot Rodger on one camp or the other, psychoanalyze his motives. The victims really have sort of been forgotten. In many cases they’ve been forgotten by the mainstream media themselves.

Now, beyond the obvious narrative of the media trying to claim that Elliot Rodger’s primary motivation was misogyny and that he was a, quote/unquote, MRA murderer, MRA terrorist, the majority of his victims were men, number one. And, number two, many of the news stories about this didn’t even—minimized the male deaths or didn’t even mention them entirely.

For example, this one story from the Daily Mail which focused on the two women he killed and had absolutely nothing that—didn’t even mention the men. I think you brought attention to one story that is now offline, in which the Asian victims of Elliot Rodger were reduced to a footnote in the story and the whole story was about the women who were killed?

KID STRANGELOVE: It’s an absolute tragedy because there’s six victims in this story and as much as it pains me to say this, they were all killed in various ways, you know; three people who were stabbed, one person was run over, and two people were shot. But at the same time, even though only two people were shot, people were pinning this as a gun problem. And three Asian men died, but at the same time the angle that three Asian men died and that the killer said many racist things in his manifesto was completely ignored.

This entire thing made me so disheartened by the modern media, you know what I mean. I look at new developments of this and I just kind of have to slap my forehead because it just feels so, so embarrassing.

And we have to go back to when I mentioned PUA Hate, because, like I said, originally PUA Hate was a website meant to expose really scammy commercial pickup artists. Now, I went on PUA Hate a few months ago just to kind of check it out, see what it’s about, and it’s devolved into a site where it basically tries to expose people’s private information, such as those members of the Roosh V Forum. And the stuff that they say there is basically unless you’re like a six-figure millionaire or whatever, with sweet abs and have reconstructive jaw surgery, then you have no chance in hell to have sex in your life and you shouldn’t even be trying.

Whereas, yet we know that the modern condition is different than what our parents had. You know, our parents can’t give us any advice on how to date. Our parents can’t give any courtship advice because their world is so much different than our world, and I understand that, but at the same time it’s not like this world is hopeless. We have to accept our reality before we can make anything work.

That’s been one of the things that has really disappointed me with the news coverage, is that they take some of these things that were said on pickup artist websites about modern sexual conditions and they twist it into an entitlement story. For example, I forgot the name of the young lady who hosts the Young Turks.

MATT FORNEY: Ana Kasparian, I think.

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah, Ana Kasparian, that’s right. She went on a tirade against Roosh, because Roosh in a response on Return of Kings basically said that this is a side effect of the modern sexual condition where 90 percent of the men—I’m sorry, I mean 90 percent of the women want to sleep with ten percent of the men. And you know what, I agree with that viewpoint, but at the same time when I see this viewpoint I think, okay, how can I make this viewpoint work for me, you know what I mean.


KID STRANGELOVE: You’re still a sexual human being that wants to have sex and have a good life, so you see it for what it is and then you make it work for yourself. Whereas Ana Kasparian seems to see it as a slight against her. She said, oh, we’re not allowed to have casual sex; oh, women are sluts, men are studs. She really took it in a different direction. Whereas I think that when Roosh said that he meant, listen, this is the modern sexual condition, deal with it.

One of my recent posts on my blog that actually got really popular, it’s called the Number One Rule of Male/Female Interaction, and it basically says that, to women, you’re either the shit or you don’t exist. And it’s kind of something like that, you know.

You realize this, that male problems get marginalized, but at the same time male accomplishment gets vaulted. So if you can kind of construct yourself as someone who’s an accomplished male, people will look up to you. Whereas if you’re a guy that is public about his problems, listen, no one’s going to help you. That’s the unfortunate part.

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much, exactly. The response to the MSM and mainstream feminists and leftists have sort of given to the Elliot Rodger case as the master is sort of shocking. Because as you said, they’re completely—as you gave the example of Ana Kasparian’s response to Roosh, they don’t really care about the facts, they’re too wrapped up in an emotional narrative to consider the facts honestly.

I’ve seen so many different arguments from feminists the past week that go along this argument. It doesn’t matter that Elliot Rodger killed more men than women, it doesn’t matter that PUA Hate hated the manosphere, they’re all the same thing, okay. PUA Hate is part of the manosphere, even though it opposed the manosphere. In fact, I was actually one of their targets in the past few months. They had a thread devoted to me on their Shitty Advice section. I think it was called, Matt Forney, Biggest Beta Loser—Liar Ever, or something.

KID STRANGELOVE: After having partied with you, I can honestly say you’re not a beta loser at all. You’re a party monster, but go on.

MATT FORNEY: Exactly. They claim that PUAHate is—that basically even though the facts don’t line up, they say it doesn’t matter because they apparently spring from the same wellspring of misogyny wherever, even though PUA Hate, as you mention, their guy ethos is that most men are hopeless and that the only way to get laid is to be six feet tall, have the perfect smile, get plastic surgery. They also expect women to sort of hand themselves to men on a platter, which is mainly, it’s Elliot Rodger’s own viewpoint.

If you go through his manifesto, you’ll notice that while he complains about women a lot, he never once talks about actually approaching them. The assumption we get that he expected women to just come up to him based on his flashy car and his good looks and working out and that sort of thing. Whereas the manosphere, anti-feminists like Roosh who preach male self-improvement say that no, you don’t deserve a good looking woman just because you happen to have a penis; you have to work for it, you have to be that cool guy.

It’s sort of astounding basically, yeah, how the mainstream media so went into this narrative of misogyny and the so-called patriarchy that they’re willing to disregard the facts even as they’re shoved in their faces.

KID STRANGELOVE: No, I completely agree with you here. And, you know, if I can go off on a slight tangent. I’ve kind of noticed recently that in my own personal dealings, when I talk with all sorts of people about this thing, they are not blaming misogyny, you know what I mean. This is some sort of really weird thing where the super, like, check your privilege feminist narrative is actually now controlling the media, which feels really weird, you know what I mean.



MATT FORNEY: We’ve sort of seen this developing for a few years now. Remember back to the Duke lacrosse rape case, where, again, we had a false narrative of a black stripper claiming that three wealthy white lacrosse players had raped her, only to discover that she was lying about the whole thing.

KID STRANGELOVE: I’m sorry to interrupt you, but it really seems like that part of the media really tries to interject a more racial element into this, whereas sometimes, yeah, they’re right and racial things do need to be noticed, but at the same time the manosphere is not a white thing.

I have looked around for criticism in the manosphere and they’re saying like, oh, there’s white supremacy built into the manosphere. That couldn’t be more false. We have had several meetups of people on the Roosh V Forum in New York City and we have had men from all sorts of walks of life. I’m eastern European myself; we had several Asian dudes, several black dudes, you know, several white dudes. Of course Dom Torres is Hispanic, and it’s something that’s kind of actually uniting the races instead of dividing us, you know. Through the manosphere we can have honest conversations about race without trying to turn each other into opponents, you know what I mean.


KID STRANGELOVE: And I really think that this kind of mainstream narrative of, hey, blame it all on someone that doesn’t look like you, is kind of a divide and conquer strategy. Whereas when us as men we get together, we realize that no matter what our backgrounds are, no matter what our religion is, no matter what our ethnicity is or what our age is, we have so much in common.

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much, yeah. To continue my point before you interrupted me, which is fine.


MATT FORNEY: My point with the Duke lacrosse rape case is that even after the case was blown up and it was revealed that Crystal Gail Mangum had lied about everything, you still had some people saying that even though the particular facts of this case were not true, so-called racist rape is still a problem in America.

So basically what they’re saying is even though the story is what they believe is not true, doesn’t line up with the facts, it’s still true in that there’s supposedly an epidemic of white men raping poor black women. Or in this case, the Elliot Rodger case, that suppose an academic—an epidemic of men terrorizing women even though Elliot Rodger doesn’t fit the narrative at all. So I was like, we’re talking about people who have—I hate to go for the whole claim of they must be crazy, but how can you describe someone who is so wedded to a particular ideology that even when incontrovertible facts are pressed in their faces, a particular case or whatever, that they still stick to that narrative and claim that the facts don’t matter. What can you describe that as anything other than insane?

KID STRANGELOVE: I think, actually when you—I wouldn’t say misspoke, but this is my English as a second language thing. You had a Freudian slip there. You said, instead of saying—you corrected yourself. You said epidemic, but first you said academic.

MATT FORNEY: I didn’t even notice that.

KID STRANGELOVE: That is exactly where it is, because we have a lot of young people coming in, you know, leaving their families for the first time, and really kind of being taught these kinds of philosophies, and it’s really weird because a lot of people say, oh, men run the world and mental institutions, blah blah blah. But at the same time you go to any college in the United States, you can basically get expelled on an accusation just for looking at a girl wrong.

Like sure, the men’s rights side basically tries to hype it up as much as they can on their side, at the same time the feminists basically say there’s a crazy rape epidemic. But think of it this way, man, think of it this way. I’ve heard statistics that say, like, one out of four women in college gets raped. And do you smoke cigarettes?

MATT FORNEY: I don’t smoke cigarettes, no.

KID STRANGELOVE: Okay. What is one of your reasons for not smoking cigarettes?

MATT FORNEY: They’re too expensive in New York state. At $10 a pack, it’s too pricey for me.

KID STRANGELOVE: Understandable, understandable. But the answer I was looking for was lung cancer. People are afraid of lung cancer. Makes sense, right? But if you are a lifetime smoker, your odds of getting lung cancer are about one in ten. But yet this one-in-ten chance of getting lung cancer for a lot of people is enough to say I am never fucking touching a cigarette ever again, or ever in the first place.

Whereas if the one-in-four rape figure was actually true, what kind of fucking parents would send their daughter to a university, you know what I mean?

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much. That wouldn’t force this—I don’t even think war zones in Africa have a rape rate that high. If you’re sending your daughter to a college and that’s supposedly true, it’s like, do you want her to get raped? Do you want her to get killed? It’s like serious cognitive dissonance going on here.

KID STRANGELOVE: Like I said, the academic epidemic, where I can think of the best one that we’re all talking about is this, but you need to really pay attention to that because those are the people that are telling us that this stuff is happening, whereas at the same time they’re promoting this idea, whereas this idea’s just simply not true. I can talk here for hours and hours about this idea but it’s just simply not true, but at the same time that’s their narrative.

We’re now in a situation and —you know, I’m egalitarian as fuck, I can understand both sides of the issue. I can understand that a guy can get kicked out of a school for looking at a girl the wrong way, but at the same time if you’re a football player, you basically have to Roosh seven girls off camera and then sign a document for you to get a prosecutor for it.

So, you know, when that story hits in the news where, like, a football player is accused of some shit and then they say it will take years to investigate, you know, that’s where they’re getting their stuff from. But at the same time it goes back to my original point that I made in my blog post of you’re either the shit or you don’t exist.

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much, yeah. And moving on to a slightly different topic, on media manipulation. What’s upsetting about the Elliot Rodger case is really that the media is not only craving and trying to force this narrative, they’re just really lazy as well and they fall for the most ridiculous hoaxes. Most notably in this specific instance, the creatine hoax. I think it was someone over at who submitted a story to the Mirror about supposedly how taking creatine, which is a weight-lifting supplement that pretty much anybody trying to build muscle mass uses, and tried to claim that creatine was what inspired Elliot Rodger to go on a spree shooting.

This story didn’t just get picked up by the Mirror. It was also published in the Daily Mail and the New York Post and a few other newspapers before they all realized it was a hoax and pulled it in embarrassment. It’s like they’re not even trying any more.

KID STRANGELOVE: That’s true. And I’m kind of wondering, was there one bodybuilding bro in the staff at these newspapers that said, listen, creatine is all right, you shouldn’t be blaming creatine for any of this shit. But that just goes to show you that the media wants to find a scapegoat.

It even makes me feel pretty bad because bodybuilding, you know, getting more muscular and strong, that’s like a really manly, masculine thing. So, but first they blame macking, hitting on girls or whatever and trying to get better at it, then they blame building muscle, which is another big masculine thing. So they’re just trying to find a scapegoat, you know.

They’re really trying to establish a narrative, which is kind of funny by the way, because in the last week or so I’ve been trying to pay attention to just about every single news source that I can. I’ve watched all channels from Fox to CNN to MSNBC, and I remember seeing a thing, like a special segment on MSNBC about this—I’m sorry, on CNN about this on the Don Lemon Show. They had six various columnists talking about this whole thing and there was zero representatives of the manosphere, you know.

From all the media that I managed to check out in the last two weeks or whatever, I’ve only seen one person, I will call them manosphere lite because he—Richard La Ruina, a.k.a. Gambler—he runs, his company owns it. There was a segment on ABC, I believe, about this whole thing and he got about four seconds of talk time, and this is not an exaggeration. I’m pretty sure it was like literally four seconds of him talking.

It’s really easy to reach out to various manosphere members. Hell, it’s easy to reach out for me, you know. My site is called; the owner is permanently displayed, my e-mail is permanently displayed, and I’m a pretty responsive dude, but at the same time no one has tried to reach out to me at all.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. And going a bit further on that, you get some cases of media manipulations that are so blatant that it’s amazing they even get published. I mean, going past the creatine hoax, you get examples of journalists, so-called journalists like Caitlin Dewey of the Washington Post who published a ridiculous article blaming the manosphere for Elliot Rodger’s shootings.

Even if you don’t know anything about any of the parties involved, there are logical contradictions in the article that would stand out to anyone. For example, describing PUA Hate, the pickup site PUA Hate, which is sort of like describing Martin Luther King, Jr., as a member of the KKK. It just inherently contradicts itself by just a cursory glance.

KID STRANGELOVE: I absolutely agree. And that article in the Washington Post was incredibly disappointing because that was the first time that the media literally said the word manosphere, but at the same time, like I said previously, all of the stuff that was in their article did not really reference any manosphere sources.

When they do, when that media source does, they reference the About section on Return of Kings, which basically says this is a site for men and only men should comment here, which apparently pisses a lot of people off; and the Tuthmosis article on 5 Reasons to Date a Girl With an Eating Disorder, and that’s it. But at the same time they ignore all of the good stuff that the manosphere does for a lot of people, and that’s actually why I did what I did, because I felt like I had a responsibility to my readers.

I created a post on my blog which referenced a bunch of older posts; not out of laziness but out of the fact that we’ve been through this before, we’ve done this before. People have tried to criticize us before, so look at the stuff that we did in the past to try to help men. So, when people get on and they look around, they see the sticky posts, they come in with some sort of expectations that we’re like the bad guys, we’re evil guys, and they realize that we’re not the bad guys at all. That’s been something that I’ve been trying to establish on my sites.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah, pretty much. We always try to fight back in small ways. I wrote an article about Caitlin Dewey basically calling her out on her lies, which as of right now is number seven on a Google search for her name. You mentioned to me that post you wrote on about refuting the lies about the Elliot Rodger case, it didn’t get as much traffic as you thought it would. Could you go into a bit more detail about that?

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah. That was probably one of the most disappointing things about this whole experience, is as soon as the Caitlin Dewey article in the Washington Post came out and she named the manosphere in her headline, she named it by name and she talked about it and she referenced some stuff in her article. I figured okay, since my site is like the first or second result for manosphere on a Google search I am going to get a bump in traffic and we’ll see what’s up.

Now, I did get a bump in traffic, except it’s not like I’m clearing a billion visitors a day or whatever. My site has some fairly modest views because the manosphere is still like a niche thing. So my web traffic doubled. In the last week it has toned down a little bit, but at the same time my daily views are up way higher.

But if a big publication like the Washington Post publishes this and it’s like this thing called the manosphere and it’s evil, but all of the sources that they source in it were, you know, feminist websites, anti-manosphere websites, and David Futrelle, a.k.a. Manboobz, who just hates the manosphere with a passion. Like, as soon as that Caitlin Dewey article was published I bet you David Futrelle was, like, masturbating, you know. Yes, the fucking manosphere’s going down, I’m going to jerk my dick. Exactly, exactly. That dude would have fucking splooshed everywhere.

I was just disappointed at the fact of how few people comparatively landed on my site, because it means that once they read that article they accepted it for what it is and didn’t want to challenge themselves further. I also kept monitoring the word “manosphere” on Twitter to see if anyone’s posting about it, and it’s mostly been reposts from the Washington Post articles.

So, that’s been the most disappointing thing is that so many people out there accepted their narrative as the facts. It’s disappointing for me because I hardly accept anything as fact. If I read something and it interests me, I dive into it further, but I guess I’m not one of those people. So most people who read about the manosphere they’re like, they’re the bad guys, they’re super misogynists 24/7. They believed it and they didn’t want to look up any further, and that was really disappointing.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. I will say that there is some pushback. If you notice on the comment threads to a lot of these articles, particularly the more extreme ones, there’s a good vocal if not majority of people saying I don’t agree with these manosphere guys but so-and-so you’re going over the line. It’s like blaming them for the murders is stupid; they may be a bunch of disgusting misogynists but they didn’t influence this guy or whatever. So there’s a little bit of pushback in that regard. And I suppose we’re all benefited to a certain extent by the news cycle sort of moving on, though Elliot Rodger still is something of a hot topic online right now.

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah. It totally is because, to address the first thing you said, I have seen several articles, don’t quote me on this because I can’t recall exactly which article, but this happens in the mainstream media a lot. When the official narrative in the comments gets disputed, the comments get closed and deleted, and this has been happening more and more and more in general.

So I’ve seen this in a lot of the Elliot Rodger articles, whether it’s about the manosphere, about his misogyny. Where people at first in the article say, listen, what you’re saying is sort of bullshit, but then the publication just kind of cuts this whole thing off, you know.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. Which is why you have some websites that are moving to close comments entirely, or just force people to comment on their real names, to keep people from contravening the narrative, at least on their own pages.

KID STRANGELOVE: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, and the thing is we know the truth, because sometimes you might say some shit and it’ll get your ass fired. You know, I’m not saying I agree with shit that Donald Sterling says. I’m not like — you’re saying that I’m a Donald Sterling supporter, but at the same time it’s not like Donald Sterling’s the only case where a dude’s saying some shit and getting fired, whether it’s Romanike [sp], if I’m saying his name correctly, or the dude on that said some shit about this whole case.

People put their name out there and they say something that doesn’t fit the narrative, listen, their entire world gets lost basically. That’s why we’re anonymous and anonymous comments, I think, is the future.

MATT FORNEY: In many ways, I mean, I hate to make this comparison to someone who actually is from a former communist country, but mainly sort of like a secular version, a privatized version of thought control, where it’s not done by the government officially but you have all these gangs who are threatening companies to fire people who contravene the narrative even a tiny little bit. I mean, you brought up Donald Sterling just a little bit ago.

The most ridiculous case related to that is, there’s a guy I think working for some game company who said on his Twitter, okay, Donald Sterling’s an idiot but you can’t fire someone for his private racist opinions, okay; he’s like, he has the right to be a racist in his private life, whatever. Relatively uncontroversial stuff. The guy said he didn’t support Sterling, just said he has a right to believe what he wants, and that guy got fired by the game company because, quote/unquote, his views were not consistent with the company’s, I don’t know, corporate culture or something.

KID STRANGELOVE: Yeah. And like I said, man, I honestly think that this is the 2014 liberal version of 2006 Republicans, you know what I mean. So, like I said, it’s all fun and games until there’s a Republican president and then people can get down to other issues.

It does totally remind me of stuff that I’ve experienced in the Soviet Union growing up and stuff that—you know, the worst stuff was experienced by my parents and grandparents, that grew up in the more hardcore times of, say, Khrushchev. That was some shit and we came to America. Whereas in America you can say some stupid shit, but you can still be free to say some stupid shit.
At the same time, you know, as I’ve read some stuff that this is basically, like, a weird extension of capitalism of you’re basically fucking with other people’s money. I understand that approach, but at the same time I don’t want this beautiful great country to devolve into a place where you’re afraid to say stuff.

I think you should always be able to express yourself, no matter how silly or crazy you may sound. It’s like the old saying: I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it. I think that’s a guiding principle of the United States and it should be.

MATT FORNEY: It’s sadly being lost right now. Now, we’re going to move on to a bit of a lighter topic in the next segment, but first some commercials. I’m Matt Forney, this is the Matt Forney Show, and we will have more with Kid Strangelove after this.


MATT FORNEY: And we are back. I am Matt Forney, this is the Matt Forney Show. I am here with Kid Strangelove for another segment, this time on social media addiction.

As most of my readers know, I took a complete vacation from social media and unnecessary Internet usage for most of April basically. I closed down my Twitter, I closed down my Facebook account. I even went so far as to actually block them from being accessible on my computer, so I wouldn’t be tempted to look at them. I unsubscribed to unnecessary e-mail lists, I stopped reading a whole bunch of blogs and got rid of the apps on my phone, too.

Now, Kid, I know you have some experience in this regard, because you had a very similar project several months ago called No Nothing November. Could you talk a bit more about that and your experience with kicking bad habits?

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I conceived No Nothing November because I realized there was some problems in my life that needed fixing. I was way too much into social media and checking news every couple of seconds, I smoked too much pot, and I masturbated too much. And this lets you know that I’m like a real person that’s not going to try to sell you anything, because your basic PUA pervert is like, oh, I never masturbate, I haven’t masturbated in the last seven years and I get bitches all day.

It was just a tough time in my life and I figured, you know what, it’s time for a change. And the change was made, I documented a bunch of stuff on my blog, and learned a bunch of stuff, realized a bunch of stuff. The crazy thing is, you don’t think such little simple things are addictions and problems in your life until you try to kick the habit, and then you realize that they’re just trying to grind themselves back. It’s really hard.

And the Internet stuff especially because, you know, we have pot and we have masturbation, that’s something that you do to relax. You’re not going to masturbate in the middle of your fucking work day and light a big fucking blunt and then go back to a meeting. If you can jack off, smoke a blunt, and then be a productive member of a Fortune 500 company, more power to you.

But that was, I had to kind of learn to relax a different way, but at the same time the Internet addiction stuff is something that manifests itself 24 hours a day. It’s almost a twitch reaction in your left hand—well, if you’re a righty, you’re right-hand, I’m a lefty. So there’s a twitch reaction in my left hand to pull the phone out of my pocket and check some stuff. You know, like the phone buzzes, you have to look at notifications, you reply to people, see who’s saying something, see who’s saying something stupid, and whatever kind of new trend there is you’ve got to comment on it or call some shit out. It just gets so, like it absorbs your reality basically.

At the same time you can’t focus on other things, because focus, I remember reading it somewhere and I can back this statement up. Focus requires you to work on something for 15 to 20 minutes uninterrupted and we enter this phase of pure focus, but if you’re constantly breaking your focus with Twitter, blogs, Instagrams, whatever, then you never enter that pure stage of focus and you don’t achieve as much as you should.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. I quit social media basically for similar reasons that you did. I noticed that whenever I was on the computer and I had a bit of down time, my immediate twitch reaction, like you said that twitch reaction, I would go over Twitter or I would go over to Facebook, see if anyone was saying something interesting or stupid, or if some flame war had broken out, or if anyone had a responded to one of my witty japes, and individually these bits of time were not a whole lot. I never got to the point where I was scrolling through my entire Twitter feed or looking through my entire Facebook feed, but cumulatively all these lost seconds could add up to huge globs of wasted time.

Not only that, by constantly hopping from website to website, like you said, I couldn’t enter into a state of deep focus and as a result I couldn’t get any work done. Roughly around the same time I decided to quite social media. I was working on launching a small business and all these constant distractions kept me from getting any serious work done. It’d be like, oh, I’ll check Twitter, I’ll check Facebook, I’ll procrastinate a little bit here, I’ll procrastinate a little bit there, then all of a sudden it’s two in the morning and you haven’t gotten a jot of work done.

When I got off social media, immediately it was kind of painful to me, because, you know, I blocked Twitter and Facebook, but my twitch reflex is to go click on those websites, until the computer slaps my hand away and says nuh-uh, you ain’t looking at that tonight, Mister. It takes a few days to unlearn that twitch reflex, or pulling out my phone whenever I got down time outside, when I’m out of the house and I have that checking Twitter or Facebook, and again I uninstalled the apps so there’s nothing to look at, nothing to use my phone aside from texting people or having phone calls. Gosh, actually just calling people on a phone, what a quaint concept.

KID STRANGELOVE: That is so quaint.

MATT FORNEY: But what changes did you notice when you embarked on No Nothing November and you had kicked these habits. I’ll discuss a bit more about my reaction.

KID STRANGELOVE: Of course, I totally understand. Like, one of the things I’ve noticed is the first two days or so are easy, because you can glide yourself in the first couple of days without doing any of your bad habits. And then when something goes bad in your life, when there’s like a little difficulty, or, you know, when anything negative happens, you either want to medicate yourself or you want to share it.

I remember one of the key points of No Nothing November is I went to this party, a hipster Brooklyn gallery party at Greenpoint, and this party was hipster as fuck. At the same time, you know, I was trying to hit on as many hipster chicks as I can and there was not that many at this party, but at the same time I was also trying not to get high because marijuana was smoked openly there.

I was going through the beginning stages of No Nothing November, and at the same time I realized like, yo, I am going through literally all three facets of it. I can’t express myself sexually with these girls, so I kind of want to go home and fucking J-off, but at the same time I also want to smoke some weed to relax, and at the same time I want to share all of these fucking stories for my Twitter followers or my Facebook friends or anyone else.

You know, when you start, when you’re so addicted to social media, you feel like just by posting your thoughts, you post them and that’s it, but when I stop posting my thoughts I got more introspective on them. So I start asking myself, why do you think this way, why do you feel this way; why do you feel this way and not this other way, you know. But whereas you start posting stuff, it immediately becomes, you post stuff then you wait for other people to tell you how to think and feel. It really made me more personally introspective, which is cool, which is really cool.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. One of the big changes I noticed when I quit social media is you become more analytical and focus more on your thoughts, but you also learn how to basically occupy yourself when you have nothing to do.

A couple weeks after I started the no social media binge, I went to Buffalo to a St. Vincent concert. And it’s sort of like how people who drink a lot go sober and they realize that being around constantly drunk people is intolerable; if you quit social media and stop using your smartphone for shit like that, you suddenly find being around those kinds of people intolerable. Because you’ve got all these young people crowded into the church to watch the show, most of them are sitting, twiddling on their fricking phones; counting up their Facebook likes, tweeting people, posting pictures on Instagram. In a lot of these places, just before the show started I think there was this, you know that Stephen Hawking computer voice: please refrain from using digital photography during this performance. Just before Annie Clark comes on stage and people are still fucking obsessed over their damn smartphones. It’s like we’re becoming a generation of social retards, unable to make small talk or really interact with anyone outside of our circle of friends.

KID STRANGELOVE: I totally understand that, as I have been witnessing so much of this. First of all, I’ve been noticing this because I work on the fourth floor of my building and there’s way more floors, so, and there’s a bunch of fashion companies so you mostly see more girls.

So, it’s not an uncommon scenario where I go downstairs to get my lunch, I get in the elevator and the elevator’s filled with girls who all work together, but none of them are looking at each other, every one of them is looking at a phone. It is so weird when you’re in an elevator with eight or so people and every single person is looking at their phone.

The second thing I wanted to add, this is a brand new experience as of this past weekend. I signed up for a 5k run this past weekend, it was right near Citi Field, called the Color Run, which is basically you run a 5k and in the middle of it there’s volunteers, they volunteer for the 5k that spray you with random paint.

It’s cool, it’s fun, there’s a DJ with like, sort of a rave environment afterwards and it’s really nice, it’s a positive environment. You know, a 5k is not that great of a distance, let’s be real, but at the same time for a lot of people that are out of shape, a 5k might be like climbing a fucking mountain, and I respect that. You make it through that 5k, congratulations to yourself.

But what makes the Color Run so intense is that there’s about 10,000 people there. A bunch of people came in their groups and it was supposed to be like a more social, fun experience, but at the same time everyone was in their groups just taking selfies everywhere. It was almost like literally a selfie station, or a station where you just take pictures.

It’s literally, what’s called being social now is being with the same people you’ve always known in your life at another event where people are doing the same new stuff. You know, I’m pretty sure no new connections were made before or after or during this 5k. At the end, people just experienced it, tweeted it, Instagramed it, and just went back to their regular lives.

It was so—like it was 10,000 people there, but I didn’t feel a connection at all, and it was really insane to kind of experience that. Whereas there was corporate sponsors, they set up photo sharing stations and, hey, take your picture, download it, share it with your friends, put it on Twitter and at this hashtag.

But at the same time the humanly social element of like, hey, you ran this 5k with me and you’re covered in paint, you know, that’s something—that’s a cool thing to have in common, and I did not see that and I did not experience that.

MATT FORNEY: It’s basically social incest. People interact with their close group of friends and family and they lose any ability or even interest in talking to other people, forming connections with other people.

Do you have any advice for anyone on kicking bad habits since you’ve successfully done it, I’ve successfully done it? Do you have any advice that would help people who are, say, trying to kick social media or pot or masturbation, or whatever vice is killing their productivity? Do you have any advice in that vein?

KID STRANGELOVE: Absolutely, absolutely. Here’s the thing, alter those bad habits so they become good habits. So more of the thing to do is replace it with good habits.

In November I was really just completely kicking off my CrossFit addiction. So I was working out more, I was paying attention to what I eat, and that was the good habits that I was making. So, making sure that you replace bad habits with good habits is always good because you just drown out the bad habits. If you just have a lot of free time, then you don’t know what to make of your free time.

The other thing is accountability. Because, honestly, if you’re just doing something by yourself, 99 percent of us we can rationalize anything to us. It’s basically like this, if you’re chilling by yourself, let’s say you’re working in an office and someone brings in donuts, and a bunch of people have donuts and there’s one donut left, whoever takes the donut is an asshole, unless you take the donut and it makes perfect sense that you did.

So if you make yourself more accountable towards an outside source that could help you, like I wrote my experiences about this on my blog. You know, when I even slipped one day because I ended up in this insanely awesome hipster party and there was pot there smoked openly, I’m like fuck it, you know, and then I felt really bad about it. Like, all right, I’m going to do shit for ten more days to make up for it. And I could have just ignored it, but at the same time I had this source of accountability, which kind of made it really, you know, it was no longer about me but it was also about can I back this shit up, you know, like, can I prove myself.

Because a lot of times as people we make promises that we can’t keep up, because we don’t really have a backing for that promise. So if you can back yourself up, then you’re good. So, good habits and backing yourself up, that would be my two main things.

MATT FORNEY: Idle hands are the devil’s workshop.



KID STRANGELOVE: Especially when you’re trying to quit masturbation. You will have some idle hands and you’re like, what the fuck.


KID STRANGELOVE: Play some baseball.

MATT FORNEY: Yeah. Well, that will wrap up this segment. We have one last segment to go with Kid Strangelove here, some more sponsors after this. I’m Matt Forney, this is the Matt Forney Show, and we will have more with Kid Strangelove after this.


MATT FORNEY: And we are back for the last segment here on the Matt Forney Show. I’m Matt Forney and I am here with Kid Strangelove. Now, one last topic to discuss. You and I are holding a meetup this week, this Friday, in fact, in New York City at Union Pool in Brooklyn. Do you want to talk a bit more about this meetup?

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Because last time Matt was in New York City, I know you met with a bunch of your readers and your fans, but you had them on separate dates.

MATT FORNEY: I was literally doing that every day of the week, I was there for four days. And then as Dom Torres can attest to, I was at a concert on Wednesday night and he texted me, like meetup with him at 11:30, I was blitzed drunk and my phone was dead. So as soon as the concert gets out, I start sprinting to this address which I had written down on a piece of paper, and I was so drunk I didn’t realize I could have called a cab. By the time I could have called a cab I was in the 500 block, and I ended up sprinting three miles. So, best to get everyone in one room together so I don’t have to do something like that again.

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. The thing is we’re going to be doing this at Union Pool in Williamsburg, hipster Brooklyn. And Union Pool, I’m a native New Yorker, I’ve been around a whole bunch and Union Pool is my favorite bar in New York City because it has a little bit of something for everyone. The drinks are cheap, there’s a place to dance, they have an outdoor area with a taco truck. It’s just a wonderful and fantastic place.

There’s not going to be any trouble at the door. If people are going to want to hit on some random chicks or our random hopeful blog groupies will come out and say, oh my God, it’s Matt Forney, he’s so fine, and this is what Kid Strangelove looks like, that’s what’s up. It’s all open for that. But we’re basically looking to connect with readers and manosphere members and everyone else. We have had these meetups before. I know Matt had some meetups and I’ve participated in some Roosh V Forum meetups, and they have all gone great. So I am hoping that this will continue the tradition.

It’ll be this Friday, at 8:00 o’clock in Union Pool. I will be wearing my signature New York Red Bulls jersey, so that’ll be the way to find me. And everyone knows how pretty Matt looks. Look for his pretty face or my Red Bulls jersey.

MATT FORNEY: Pretty much, yeah. 8:00 p.m., Union Pool in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. If you’re in the New York City area, you are welcome to join us. There will be a link in the post containing this podcast, so a bit more details on logistics if you’re out of town. There are a lot of decent hostels and low-cost places you can stay in New York City. Getting around is easy, just don’t pick a place that’s by a freeway unless you want to be woken up by 6:00 a.m. by honk, honk, honk, morning traffic.

KID STRANGELOVE: Oh, yeah, weekday morning traffic is shitty in New York City.

MATT FORNEY: Oh, god, god. That was the biggest mistake I made the last time I was down there, but anyway. We’d love to meet you, so, yeah, 8:00 p.m., Union Pool, Friday night in Brooklyn, see you there.

That will close the book on this podcast. Kid, do you have anything that you want to add that we haven’t discussed already? Any last words for the audience?

KID STRANGELOVE: I am pretty sure we have covered everything. I just wanted to wish everyone the best of luck on whatever they’re doing. And if you’re listening to this, and if you hate listening to this, understand we’re probably coming from the same place as you, so let’s hate less and love more.

MATT FORNEY: Words we can live by. Now, I’ve been talking to Kid Strangelove. You can visit his blog at He is also on Twitter at KidStrangelove, that’s all one word. And of course you should also visit for your daily anti-feminist, pro-masculine, masculine self-development aggregation needs; it is of course at I believe the Twitter address is ManosphereCom, all one word. I can’t remember exactly.

KID STRANGELOVE: You got it, man, you got it.

MATT FORNEY: Cool. So check all that out, read all of his stuff or I will hurt you. Just kidding of course. Kid, thank you for coming on the show.

KID STRANGELOVE: Hey, man, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me, man.

MATT FORNEY: Illegitimi non carborundum, don’t let the bastards grind you down. I’m Matt Forney and I am out.

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